Thursday, November 12, 2009

This was a comment in reply to Josh, but it got a bit lengthy.

Actually, Josh, what I want is everyone to have access to health care. Everyone. All over the world. With no barriers caused by financial issues.

What I want is Universal Health Care.

I don't care if it's government provided, though that's the easiest way to get there.

I want what Sweden has. I want what Japan has. I want what, yes, France has.

I want a country where no one has to choose between necessary health care and their next meal.

And I have to tell you, Josh, that coverage of abortion, and pelvic exams (not covered under the new law) and birth control is necessary health care to 51% of Americans. Especially when prostate exams are covered.

Not to mention that EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED NATION has government sponsored health care, and that, therefore, their businesses are at a financial advantage over ours since they don't have to pay outrageous sums to cover their employees.

Now, you may say, "Yeah, but look at their taxes!" and then I say: add up every penny you pay for things that their taxes cover and please realize that you are paying MORE than they are. As a nation, we are all paying more than any other industrialized nation for coverage with fewer people covered, shorter life spans, and poorer health outcomes.

Paying more for less? That's the American Way!


Madeleine said...

Wait, the current bill doesn't cover routine annual checkups (aka pelvic exams)? That is basic preventative care that catches cancer and other ailments and has NOTHING to do with abortion. I am amazed.

I am horrified by the Stupak Amendment that prevents private plans from offering abortion coverage if they want to, but I understand that abortion is a political football.

But how can they reasonably exclude basic preventive care?

liz said...

Ala The Nation

Madeleine said...

Did some googling. A blog post referencing an article in The Nation says that Pap smears are covered, but not pelvic exams. Hmm. That is just silly. They want doctors to take the swab, but not to take a moment to check around for any other problem. Dumbos.

Eva said...

We'll be in Sweden in a few months, and I am really interested to see how what it's like.

We're not moving for political reasons or the social benefits, but they increasingly don't hurt!

Jenn said...

Oh, I have a whole post somewhere I can try to find for you about the whole "canadians pay eleventy-million more taxes than americans" myth.

In all, as I said below, having a clear voice is all about making demands and then putting their feet to the fire in terms of ample fair coverage.

If I might also add - booyeah.

kathy a. said...


Mummy/Crit said...

Hello. Our healthcare system is pretty good for some things (acute, emergency, pregnancy and birth included) and close to free. Other parts not so good, but much more equitable than what you folks have right now.

Josh Dermer said...

First, nobody can have an honest discussion of any issue if we're going to restate talking points and catch phrases like "universal health care." Let's cut the nonsense and start calling these programs what they really are: government-run, socialized medicine. People sugarcoat this in order to make it sell.

Second, this tired canard about "every other industrialized nation" is a giant bandwagon fallacy. Let's use some real arguments for once. I don't care if Europe does this or does that. We're not Europe. Just because something is popular doesn't make it correct.

Regarding the examples you used, I certainly wouldn't use Japan as an example to prove your point because Japan has been fighting to get itself out of a decades-long recession which has crippled their economy. Obviously having socialized medicine hasn't given them an economic advantage over other nations.

And the reason we're "paying more for less" has more to do with the massive amount of inflation which creeps forward than the greed of any insurance companies. The combination of the Federal Reserve's manipulation of the money supply and massive government spending is destroying the U.S. dollar. That's the elephant in the room which nobody wants to talk about.

Third, there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution which even remotely authorizes anything close to this health care "reform" legislation. Involvement in health care is not a delegated or enumerated power given to the Federal government by the Constitution. We're a nation of laws, not men. That the bill itself is unconstitutional is reason enough to oppose it.

Fourth, the issue of taxation is small potatoes compared to the huge increase of power given to a centralized government in Washington, D.C. over the lives of everyday people. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The moment we rely upon the Federal government to meet our essential needs in life is the moment we become slaves to that entity. It's as simple as that.

And before you start talking about the insurance companies, consider the fact that the insurance companies don't have the power of the sword. Insurance companies don't have the power of taxation or other means of coercion which are exclusive to civil government. Insurance premiums are an option, taxes are not.

Finally, I plan to boycott health care entirely if the government takes it over--unless I'm able to pay doctors/nurses under the table to receive care. I absolutely refuse to participate in a government-run system. I don't care if I never see another doctor again. I don't care if I die. Some things are more important than life itself...liberty is such a virtue.

Despite our differences, I appreciate your respectful tone and I wish you well.

landismom said...

If people in the US are tired of paying too much in taxes (and I'm not one of them), I've got a whole bunch of ideas about how to shrink the federal government, and they mostly involve cutting our military budget down to the level of what we spent during the Cold War.

landismom said...

or less...

liz said...

I dunno, Josh. Seems to me that Section eight of the Constitution, which reads, in part: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;" can be understood as giving Congress the power to enact legislation that provides for health coverage.